his grand jury testimony:
Q Good morning, sir. Directing you back to 1996 and specifically the night of the Tyson/Seldon fight, did you come to Las Vegas?
A Yes, sir.
Q Where were you living back then, what state? You don't have to tell me exactly where.
A California.
Q And why did you come to Vegas that weekend?
A I was coming for the Tyson fight.
Q And did you come by yourself or with anybody else?
A I came with another gentleman.
Q Did you ever make it to the MGM that night?
A Yes, I did.
Q Did you ever make it into the fight?
A No, I did not.
Q Why not?
A I sold my ticket.
Q While you were at the MGM did you see somebody that went by the name or whose name was Tupac Shakur?
A Yes, I did.
Q And when did you see him?
A When?
Q Yeah. Coming in or going out?
A Oh, coming in. Coming in.
Q So you saw Mr. Shakur coming into the MGM for the Bruce Seldon fight?
A Yes, sir.
Q What did you do after you sold your ticket?
A I was people watching, just watching, you know, the people come in, just all the different celebrities, different people, and after the fight started I crossed the street to my hotel.
Q Do you remember what hotel that was?
A I believe it was the, back then it was the Monte Carlo.
Q And did your friend go with you?
A Yes.
Q Does there come a point in time, you know, after you leave the MGM when you decide you want to leave the Monte Carlo?
A Yes.
Q And why did you want to leave the Monte Carlo?
A I wanted to get something to eat.
Q And where were you getting it from?
A California Pizza Kitchen.
Q And did you preorder it or were you going to drive over there?
A Yeah, I phoned in my order.
Q After you phoned in your order did you leave the Monte Carlo?
A Yes, I did.
Q And what vehicle were you in?
A I was in my Suburban.
Q Were you alone or did your friend go with you?
A I was by myself.
Q So after you get into your Suburban, I assume you leave the Monte Carlo, at some point do you see Mr. Shakur again?
A Yes, I do.
Q And to the best of your recollection where were you when you saw Mr. Shakur?
A I was on the Strip, Las Vegas Boulevard.
Q And were you heading northbound?
A I don't know the direction.
Q Were you heading -- let me ask you this. So if the Monte Carlo is Tropicana and Las Vegas Boulevard, were you heading in the direction of let's say what is now the Stratosphere or Wynn?
A Yes.
Q So you were heading in that direction?
A I was heading in this direction that I'm facing now.
Q Okay. Does there come a point in time --well, where do you see Mr. Shakur?
A Well, I was driving and I came to a stoplight, stopped at the light and while I was stopped a car rolled up and the wheels really caught my attention. And I looked up and it was Tupac and Suge in the car.
Q And when you saw Tupac and Suge, did you say anything to Mr. Shakur?
A Yes, I did.
Q And why did you say something to Mr. Shakur?
A I was just saying hello, what's up to him. I had conversations with him before in Los Angeles and I was just saying what's up to him.
Q How did you know or how did you meet him in Los Angeles?
A I had a couple -- I used to sell cars and I -- a couple of -- a friend of mine used to work for Death Row and I sold cars to a couple of the employees there. And while I was there sometimes I interacted with him, talked with him maybe one or two times.
Q So when you said Tupac or, hey, Tupac, did Tupac respond to you?
A Yeah. He kind of, he kind of looked, kind of paused and then he recognized me and he said, oh, what up, man. And then I said, hey, where you guys going and he said we're going to the club, you should follow us. I said all right, cool.
Q Did you make a request of Mr. Shakur at that point?
A Yeah. I don't know why but, I don't know, I was a fan and all that I guess or whatever and I said, hey, man, let me get a picture real quick.
Q And did you take a picture of him?
A Yes. And I --
Q I'm showing you what's been marked as Grand Jury Exhibit Number 43. Do you recognize that?
A Yes.
Q And what is it?
A It's a picture of Tupac and Suge in the BMW.
Q And is that the photograph you took that night?
A Yes, sir.
Q After you take this photograph what do you see Suge -- or does the car drive away?
A Yeah. So after I took the picture I put my camera back on my center console and the light changed green and they took off. And I saw a few cars behind them and I recognized some of the cars so I let them go because I was going to get behind them. And so once they passed me up I got behind them.
Q And what kind of a car were you in?
A I was in a Suburban, Chevy Suburban.
Q And do you remember what color it was?
A White.
Q So you're at the, kind of the tail end of the entourage. You've now started following them?
A I was about three cars behind.
Q Okay. At some point does Mr. Knight turn off of Las Vegas Boulevard?
A Yes.
Q And sometime after he turns off Las Vegas Boulevard does something catch your attention?
A After he turns off?
Q Well, at some point do you hear something that causes you concern?
A Actually I was on the phone calling California Pizza Kitchen to cancel my food order and I made the right turn. And after I made the turn, I don't know, maybe five to ten seconds, I don't know the exact time, I just heard pop, pop, pop, pop.
Q After hearing that what do you see?
A I see some people jump out of cars and they run in front, they run towards the BMW.
Q The BMW that Tupac and Suge were in?
A Yes.
Q So is it fair to say you never saw a suspect vehicle or the shooter or anything like that?
A No.
Q You just heard shots and then you saw the commotion that goes to Tupac's car?
A Yes, sir.
Q What happens after that?
A After that I see the BMW make a wide U-turn. And then as it makes the U-turn there was other -- the people that had ran towards the car are now running back towards their cars. And one of the guys tried to get in my vehicle but my door was locked. And I recognized the guy but the guy wasn't riding with me so I guess he realized he was in the wrong car or trying to get in the wrong car. And then I got caught up inthe moment and I followed behind them and I made the U-turn as well.
Q So now the evidence has established that the shooting happens as the entourage is heading eastbound on Flamingo at about Koval. You see Suge take a left and go back towards the Strip as well as other cars then start following them and you follow as well?
A Yes, sir.
Q Can you describe for me how Suge's driving westbound on Flamingo as he gets to sort of where the Strip is?
A Yeah, he was speeding and he maneuvered away from one car or a few cars and then he made a big wide left turn back onto the Strip, or Las Vegas Boulevard. And as he made that turn he went up on the curb and then he came back down and then he sped off and then we came through the intersection as well.
Q And do you follow him until -- well, at some point does his vehicle stop?
A Yes. So there was like, it was kind of crowded and he made a left turn and then he couldn't get across the way. I remember he couldn't get across. And then as he was sitting there some bicycle cops rode up on their bikes and they, one of the 10:01:53 cops threw the bike down and was, you know, giving them commands.
Q Did you hear Suge saying anything?
A Yes, I did.
Q What did you hear him saying?
A I heard him say my man Pac is shot, Pac is shot.
Q As you're watching this unfold with police at Suge's car, does something happen to you?
A Yes.
Q What happens?
A So as I'm sitting there I'm watching it and a cop comes up to me and pulls a shotgun on me and drags me out of my car.
Q Okay. And then what does he do with you?
A He throws me on the ground and I'm questioning like, hey, what's going on, what's going on. And I don't remember what he said. Oh, he asked me was I was with them, was I with them and I was like no, I wasn't. And he said, well, we have witnesses saying
that you were. And I said I just saw them, I just saw them at the intersection, I just took a picture. And then, you know, they were searching me and they searched my vehicle. And as I was laying there I saw, you know, the melee going on with the police, with Suge, and they -- I saw them run over there to the other side, to
the passenger side where Tupac was. I saw them trying
to get in the car and --
Q Is it fair to say that there were multiple vehicles with multiple people pulled out and proned out?
A I don't remember, I just remember myself.
Q You just remember yourself getting pulled out like that?
A Yes.
Q At some point do you get released from the scene which is basically the corner of Las Vegas Boulevard and Harmon?
A Yes, I do.
Q And where do you go?
A I went back to my hotel.
Q And when you got there where in the hotel did you go?
A I went back to the craps table where I left my friend and he was still there.
Q And did you start to tell him kind of the crazy story of what just happened?
A Yeah, I was talking to him and telling him what happened and that was it.
Q While you're standing there talking to your friend does something happen?
A Yes. I had been there 10:04:18 about ten, fifteen minutes and I'm standing there talking to my friend and all of a sudden I get a tap on my shoulder. And I look behind and it's the same police officer that drug me out of my vehicle. And he said we fucked up, we shouldn't have let you go, the detectives need you back at the scene.
Q And did you agree to go with them?
A Yes, I did.
Q And did you then go back to the scene?
A Yes, I did.
Q And at some point do you relay the information that you took a photograph of Tupac and Suge that night?
A Yes, sir.
Q And do the police, I don't know if either you voluntarily gave it to them or whether or not they just took it, but at some point did the police officers recover your camera, take a copy of it but then provide you your camera back?
A Yeah. The detective, I can't remember his name, but he interviewed me, he asked me to see the camera. And it was a 35-millimeter camera and I still had some exposure. So I don't know -- well, you guys look like you know what a 35-millimeter camera is. So the camera that I had had like a self -rewind. Like if you don't, you know, if you don't take all the, you know, expose all it you can do a rewind. So they wanted to -- he said do you mind if I, you know, take my film and I said sure. And he said, well, you know, we'll get it back to you, we just want to see if, you know, the picture that you took to see if there's anything that, you know, there's anything on the picture.
Q Essentially moments before Tupac is shot this shows what he's wearing and what Suge is wearing in that vehicle?
A Yes, sir.
Q That completes my questions
